SMM 067: How to Navigate Spiritual Differences with Your Spouse || Tim Trendler

In episode 67, I am excited to be interviewing my husband, Tim Trendler. We discuss how we have navigated spiritual differences throughout our 22 year marriage.

You will learn quickly in this episode that Tim is definitely the fun-loving, outgoing partner in our marriage. I am more intense and a deep thinker. We aren’t perfect, but we have learned to help each other develop spiritually and respect our different approaches to gospel living. Looking back, I can see how our differences actually make us a great team.

In the episode, Tim and I both share the spiritual promptings we experienced that led us to marriage. You’ll even find out why Tim didn’t talk to me for 3 weeks after we got engaged!

We also talk about our two very different perspectives on teaching a lesson at church and why both approaches work.

Tim discusses the positive side of having differences. He shares how our children have benefited by seeing two different approaches to spirituality.

In addition, Tim gives his take on the best thing you can do when you differ with your spouse spiritually.

Tim offers his answer to the final question I ask every guest and shares his perspective on how God has been his partner in fatherhood.

I will admit it was harder than I thought to interview my spouse. My goal was for this episode to be more of a conversation than an interview, which means we got off track a few times and I had to do a lot of editing. In the spirit of “keepin’ it real” I left a couple outtakes that you’ll hear if you listen to the end.

How to Listen

Listen to the podcast below or on iTunesSpotifyGoogle PlayStitcher or Sound Cloud.  If you like the show, please subscribe and leave a review.

Show Notes

Listen to other Spiritually Minded Mom episodes about spiritual differences:

SMM 065: Hope When You Don’t Live in a Perfect Family Proclamation Home|| Norma Zaugg
SMM 063: How to Embrace Agency + Increase Love as a Mother || Shelley Swapp
SMM 062: How to Show Unconditional Love When Loved Ones Don’t Share Your Faith
SMM 018: Divorce + Blending Families + Coming Back to God in Motherhood || Tarrin Pendergrass

Follow Spiritually Minded Mom

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Podcast: Spiritually Minded Mom on iTunes


SMM 065: Hope When You Don’t Live in a Perfect Family Proclamation Home|| Norma Zaugg

Within 2 years of her 19 year marriage, my guest for episode 65, Norma Zaugg, realized her hopes and dreams for her home and family were not going according to plan. Her marriage was rocky and her husband stopped being involved with the Church. Norma was left wondering how to navigate it all.

Guidance from God

In my interview with Norma, she shares how she didn’t take the thought of bringing children into her dysfunctional marriage lightly. Through heartfelt prayer, she felt guided to know the timing and how to teach her children.

She shares about the promise God made to her early on and how it was fulfilled as each of her boys have been baptized. She knows God is aware of her efforts and that He will keep His promises to her.

Hope if You Don’t Feel Your Home is Perfect

Norma’s story offers hope to anyone who feels they don’t live in the perfect “family proclamation” home. Both Norma and I discuss how there isn’t a model or one way to be a righteous, Latter-day Saint mother. We can each figure out what it means for us as individuals.

Her own experiences with a spouse who was not supportive spiritually taught Norma to teach the Gospel to her children through small, everyday moments. She has literally whispered gospel truths in her children’s ears and helped them identify the Holy Ghost.

Helping Others in Difficult Marriages

How can you help someone you know who is in a hard marriage? Norma’s advice is simple–Don’t make assumptions. Ask questions. Follow the spirit.

After her divorce, self care was the first step Norma took to start to heal. She shared, “In order for me to be able to help my boys, I have to be on top of my game. And if I’m not taking care of myself, I can’t be patient. I can’t be loving. I can’t do homework for hours on end unless I have taken care of me.” Norma says to start small and slowly add in things to do just for you.

God is There Even in the Dark Times

Overall, Norma’s story will remind you that change can happen for each of us. Starting fresh and doing something different is hard, but you will look back and be able to see God everywhere, even in dark times.

How to Listen

Listen to the podcast below or on iTunesSpotifyGoogle PlayStitcher or Sound Cloud.  If you like the show, please subscribe and leave a review.

Show Notes

Quotes from Norma:

“I knew that if my boys were ever going to see something different, it would have to be because I put forth the effort.”

“It’s fascinating that sometimes we almost have to be removed from [the situation] before we can fully see how He intricately was there the entire time planning and helping and putting the pieces together in a much more marvelous way than we could have ever imagined and the gifts He would give through those horrible hardships.”

“If you are feeling lost and you’re feeling empty and you’re feeling hopeless, there is absolutely a way out but it is not magic and there is no quick solution. It is a lot of work and it is a lot of internal work.”

Download Norma’s free guide “Living with a Spouse that No Longer Believes in the Church

Listen to other Spiritually Minded Mom episodes about family members who leave the Church

Episode 063: How to Embrace Agency + Increase Love as a Mother || Shelley Swapp
Episode 062: How to Show Unconditional Love When Loved Ones Don’t Share Your Faith

Follow Norma

Instagram: @normazaugg
Instagram: @sparkpodcast
Website: normazaugg.com
Podcast: SPARK – the light within

Follow Spiritually Minded Mom

Blog: spirituallymindedmom.com
Instagram: @spirituallymindedmom
Facebook: spirituallymindedmom
Podcast: Spiritually Minded Mom on iTunes


SMM 063: How to Embrace Agency + Increase Love as a Mother || Shelley Swapp

Welcome to the final episode of season 2. I am taking a short break from the podcast and will be back in September with more faith-filled interviews for you.

In episode 63, my guest is Shelley Swapp. Shelley shares what she hopes her children will remember about her as a mom.

Motherhood Challenges

She also gives insights into the challenges her family has faced in the past few years. As a mother, she has watched her children deal with moving, brain injury, physical special needs, mental health challenges and faith crisis.

No Checklist to Perfect Kids

Shelley shares how she always believed there was a “checklist” of things to do as a mom. If she could just check all of the things on the list off, like family home evening, scripture study, attending church and the temple, etc., all of our children would turn out exactly as she planned. But Shelley shares how she has learned that’s not what the Gospel is about. She gives her insights on agency, something we fought valiantly for before we came to earth.

Instead of a “checklist,” Shelley discusses how “The true test of motherhood is who I become and the true test of fatherhood is who my husband becomes and not who my children become.”

She openly admits she and her husband weren’t perfect parents but can honestly say they have always loved their children.

Preserving Relationships

Shelley shares how she has persevered her relationship with her children, especially as some have chosen to leave the church. She shares how realizing our Heavenly Parents don’t sit in heaven wringing their hands has helped her to avoid worrying as well. She knows her children are on their own journey and it’s not about her.

The Power of Scripture

Both the Book of Mormon and the Bible have been huge helps to Shelley in her life as a mother. She describes the Book of Mormon as an entire book about families who were fighting valiantly to keep their children in the Gospel. She attributes the stories of Jesus found in the Bible to helping her get to a place where she can love and accept her children where they are.

Her Son’s Perspective

In preparation for the interview, Shelley spoke with her son who has recently experienced a faith crisis. She shares the advice he would gives to family members who are struggling to understand why someone would leave.

Why Heaven is Close

Ultimately, Shelley shares her testimony that heaven is so close. We can recognize tender mercies and angels here on earth. She acknowledges God’s hand in her life and knows He is helping her and her children.

How to Listen

Listen to the podcast below or on iTunesSpotifyGoogle PlayStitcher or Sound Cloud.  If you like the show, please subscribe and leave a review.

Show Notes

Light the Fight Podcast with Heidi Swapp and David Kozlowski.

Talk by Elder Robert D. Hales, With all the Feeling of a Tender Parent, April 2004 General Conference

Talk by President Henry B. Eyring, A Home Where the Spirit of the Lord Dwells, April 2019 General Conference

This is the quote by President Eyring Shelley referenced in the interview from the talk above.

“Some have tried with full heart for that blessing, yet it has not been granted. My promise to you is one that a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles once made to me. I had said to him that because of choices some in our extended family had made, I doubted that we could be together in the world to come. He said, as well as I can remember, ‘You are worrying about the wrong problem. You just live worthy of the celestial kingdom, and the family arrangements will be more wonderful than you can imagine.'”

Listen to Shelley’s daughter share her story on episode 6 of the podcast, Still Tripin’

Read more about Shelley’s motherhood journey in an article she wrote on the Awaiting Rainbows website.

Listen to a previous episode with similar stories: Episode 62, How to Show Unconditional Love When Loved Ones Don’t Share Your Faith

Follow Shelley

Instagram: @shelleyswapp
Facebook: shelleyswappsvintageherbals
Website: shelleyswapp.com

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Blog: spirituallymindedmom.com
Instagram: @spirituallymindedmom
Facebook: spirituallymindedmom
Podcast: Spiritually Minded Mom on iTunes

SMM 060: Why You Can Have Joy in the Middle of Hard Things || Stephanie Piacitelli

Stephanie Piacitelli, my guest for episode 60, is someone who has learned to find joy in the middle of hard things.

In October 2014, Stephanie and her husband, Bryant, were living a normal life with their four children. But near the end of that month, everything changed in an instant. Bryant was on his way to work as a police officer when he was struck on his motorcycle by a driver who ran a red light. Bryant was killed and Stephanie was left a widow with four young children.

Losing Her Husband

In the interview, Stephanie shares about her life before Bryant passed away and the details of the day he was killed. She talks about how she shared the heartbreaking news with her children that their father had been killed.

One of her first thoughts was forgiveness for the person who hit her husband. Her second thought was that she and her family were loved. She knew they had so many people around them who loved them.

Stephanie shares the tender mercies she received from God prior to her husband’s death that did not lessen the shock but did leave her with the knowledge she was loved. She didn’t know it at the time, but as she looks back, she can see how God was preparing her and giving her what she needed.

Submitting Her Will to God

During her grief, Stephanie had a pivotal moment when she was able to turn everything over to God. She said, “This was a test for me. Am I really willing to put my trust in my Heavenly Father, in an all-knowing, all-loving God? Am I able to do that?… These experiences that we go through, are for our own good. We may not see it in the moment, but if we will allow the refiner’s fire to allow Heavenly Father to mold us into the person that He needs us to become, we will be better off than what we may have thought.”

Stephanie used the word “liberating” when talking about surrendering her will to God. We discussed the miracle of giving your will to the One who matters most and how surrendering will change your life.

“God will not forsake me” was on repeat in Stephanie’s mind for months after her husband’s death and is how she ultimately got through the darkest days.

Knowing Her Children’s Needs

Stephanie also shares how prayer and relying on the spirit have helped her know the individual needs of her four children who lost their dad. She also talks about how she uses these same skills to help the four step children she is mothering since remarrying.

Joy in the Middle of Hard Things

Overall, Stephanie’s story illustrates well it is possible to have faith and trust, even during difficult challenges. Stephanie knows “Joy is possible, even in the midst of hard things.” God makes this possible.

How to Listen

Listen to the podcast below or on iTunesSpotifyGoogle PlayStitcher or Sound Cloud.  If you like the show, please subscribe and leave a review.

Other Episodes Dealing with Grief

Episode 2: Navigating Loss, Special Needs and Fostering as a Young Mom with Alie Jones

Episode 5: Choosing Happiness in Motherhood Despite Grief and Tragedy with Maralyn Nava

Episode 7: Turning to God Through Infertility, Adoption and Miscarriage with Kay West

Episode 58: Why Gratitude for Little Things Will Make Your Life Better with Heather Herbert

Follow Stephanie

Instagram: @stephaniepiacitelli

Follow Spiritually Minded Mom

Blog: spirituallymindedmom.com
Instagram: @spirituallymindedmom
Facebook: spirituallymindedmom
Podcast: Spiritually Minded Mom on iTunes

SMM 059: How to Be the Expert +Advocate for Your Child||Cheryl Cardall

I first interviewed Cheryl Cardall in episode 23 about overcoming weakness and using humor in motherhood. Cheryl is back and we are diving in to talk about what Cheryl has learned in 20 years of motherhood. You’ll also hear why Cheryl believes you should be the expert and advocate for your child.

Cheryl talks about a recent moment when she realized she was doing better as a mom than she thought she was. She shares how motherhood refines us and makes us better. Cheryl believes you can do more than just survive in motherhood. You can thrive.

We also have a discussion about why a mother’s worth isn’t determined by what her kids do. Cheryl has learned to be good with herself no matter what her kids do. “Their behavior has no reflection on me.”

Cheryl also discusses her recent experiences learning how to be an expert and advocate for one of her children struggling with mental health issues.

Recently, both Cheryl and her husband were prompted to get a dog for their family. She talks about how they trusted this prompting and how having a dog has been a huge blessing for their whole family. Her story illustrates so well that God cares about everything in our lives and why you can trust and act on the promptings you get.

Cheryl has seen and felt God the most when she has felt she isn’t enough. She discusses how a common answer from God for her has been to “Love them through it.”

“Motherhood is the perfect way to learn about the atonement. We are not enough on our own but when we use God and our Savior as our partner, somehow we are.”

How to Listen

Listen to the podcast below or on iTunesSpotifyGoogle PlayStitcher or Sound Cloud.  If you like the show, please subscribe and leave a review.

Show Notes

Here is the quote Cheryl shared by Dr. Christina Hibbert: “The fruit of motherhood isn’t how your kids turn out. It’s how you turn out.”

See the Instagram post by @reflectionsofchrist about the parenting advice to repent fast and frequently I mentioned in the episode. (I think I said it was about forgiveness in the episode, but it’s about repentance.)

This is the quote Cheryl shared by Janet Lansbury: “It can be really tough to remember how emotionally immature children are because they can be so impressively intelligent, capable, and aware. When they seem deliberately bratty or downright mean, we’ll need to remind ourselves: These are tiny people with incredibly low impulse control who are very easily overwhelmed. In the moment, it may feel like our kids are out to get us, but it is actually that their impulses have gotten the better of them.”

Books Cheryl recommends:
The Whole Brain Child by Dr. Dan Siegel
The Teenage Brain: A Neuroscientist’s Survival Guide to Raising Adolescents and Young Adults by Frances E. Jensen

Follow Cheryl

Instagram: @supermamas4real

Follow Spiritually Minded Mom

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Instagram: @spirituallymindedmom
Facebook: spirituallymindedmom
Podcast: Spiritually Minded Mom on iTunes